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This man had r- ridden with them all these years + + + + + + + + + + as a young boy. + + + + + + + + + + So they went back to this camp. + + + + + + + + + + They couldn't get out because the pursuers were still there, they could s- + + + + + + + + + + take + + + + + + + + + + high glasses- spy glasses and see 'em, + + + + + + + + + + and when they got back + + + + + + + + + + they /?/ 'em, they was + + + + + + + + + + having a fiesta. They had + + + + + + + + + + this machine gun mounted. They had rifles. + + + + + + + + + + You know, they was into something, you know. + + + + + + + + + + Fifteen, sixteen cases of rifles is a lot of rifles. + + + + + + + + + + And they was built + + + + + + + + + + something like M1s, + + + + + + + + + + American style. + + + + + + + + + + And + + + + + + + + + + this man told him say, + + + + + + + + + + to him, they was driving him around in an old antique car. + + + + + + + + + + Dragging him. + + + + + + + + + + Just dragging him. So they say, turn him a loose, I'll give you my part of the gold back. + + + + + + + + + + So he said no, + + + + + + + + + + say he stays. + + + + + + + + + + So he say- + + + + + + + + + + so the other one say, I'll give you my share of the gold. He says, no he stays. + + + + + + + + + + So the other + + + + + + + + + + general + + + + + + + + + + say, + + + + + + + + + + let's don't make trouble, say + + + + + + + + + + we'll just go + + + + + + + + + + get a drink you know. + + + + + + + + + + They was drinking tequila, + + + + + + + + + + wine. + + + + + + + + + + So I mean, if you could see the way they was treating that fella, you know, they's + + + + + + + + + + dragging him. + + + + + + + + + + He wasn't dead, they was just dragging him. + + + + + + + + + + But they say well + + + + + + + + + + some- + + + + + + + + + + you know to get that out of your st- out of your + + + + + + + + + + thinking this. + + + + + + + + + + So they all went and got a drink, + + + + + + + + + + and in the meantime they + + + + + + + + + + went, and + + + + + + + + + + they got + + + + + + + + + + pretty sh- pretty sharped up. + + + + + + + + + + And they had their girls and things, so + + + + + + + + + + later on + + + + + + + + + + all of 'em came out, + + + + + + + + + + and + + + + + + + + + + then anybody realized what they were getting ready to do. + + + + + + + + + + So when they came out, all of 'em ran- + + + + + + + + + + ran up to the horse. + + + + + + + + + + They got the rifles. + + + + + + + + + + They already had forty five though. + + + + + + + + + + And they had forty fours + + + + + + + + + + magnum, stuck in the bag. + + + + + + + + + + Then they had another sack of caliber pistols stuck in the side, plus their knives. + + + + + + + + + + They went up there, + + + + + + + + + + and all f- + + + + + + + + + + all four of 'em stood up and looked at the general. + + + + + + + + + + They was partying, + + + + + + + + + + soldiers all around . + + + + + + + + + + So they told him they wanted + + + + + + + + + + their companion, + + + + + + + + + + and uh + + + + + + + + + + the man said no. + + + + + + + + + + So they said, we want him. + + + + + + + + + + So everybody's tryna look. It was + + + + + + + + + + a state of shock + + + + + + + + + + to see somebody talk to the general like that. That's four mens and they got a whole army. + + + + + + + + + + Plus all his lieutenants and + + + + + + + + + + things around the table he was sitting. + + + + + + + + + + So he said, okay. You want him? + + + + + + + + + + So + + + + + + + + + + you could see him + + + + + + + + + + laying + + + + + + + + + + on the floor. He was + + + + + + + + + + You know of m- + + + + + + + + + + a matter of days, he woulda died [anyway.] + + + + + + + + + + Without medical care, they were just- + + + + + + + + + + they was using him as a puppet, you know, + + + + + + + + + + doing, do- doing that thing. + + + + + + + + + + So he + + + + + + + + + + picked him up, + + + + + + + + + + stood him on his feet. So he looked, + + + + + + + + + + and his eyes focus and he seeing his four friends. So I think he felt + + + + + + + + + + good about dying like that. [He seeing] his four friends. + + + + + + + + + + They had came back. + + + + + + + + + + They hadn't deserted him. + + + + + + + + + + The general + + + + + + + + + + had a knife in his hand, a dagger. + + + + + + + + + + He said, okay. You want him? + + + + + + + + + + And he took his hand back like that, + + + + + + + + + + cut his throat, + + + + + + + + + + and you see blood that's splashed out like that. + + + + + + + + + + And when they pushed him away, + + + + + + + + + + I guess all four of 'em shot him at once. + + + + + + + + + + He just- + + + + + + + + + + his /just sits/ in the air, that's where they- that's how fast he shot him. + + + + + + + + + + And everybody was so astonished and amazed about this thing + + + + + + + + + + that they couldn't move. + + + + + + + + + + So another general came to the door that, + + + + + + + + + + he was supposed to be the biggest general, + + + + + + + + + + /??/ and shot him. + + + + + + + + + + And when he shot him, + + + + + + + + + + the fight was on. + + + + + + + + + + When they got through, + + + + + + + + + + I don't think it was a soldier in the villa. + + + + + + + + + + But all of the- + + + + + + + + + + all of them died that I guess that's the way they wanted it. + + + + + + + + + + [All of] them died, right there. + + + + + + + + + + So + + + + + + + + + + that sums up that. + + + + + + + + + + [But it was] very interesting. + + + + + + + + + + <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + Yes, I + + + + + + + + + + I had better do that. + + + + + + + + + + In elementary school, I had + + + + + + + + + + you know, normal basics. You know, you had the math, + + + + + + + + + + English, + + + + + + + + + + um, a small portion of algebra. + + + + + + + + + + And uh + + + + + + + + + + arithmetic + + + + + + + + + + normally, + + + + + + + + + + and history. + + + + + + + + + + In high school, I had + + + + + + + + + + algebra, + + + + + + + + + + geometry, + + + + + + + + + + English, history, + + + + + + + + + + music, + + + + + + + + + + science, + + + + + + + + + + and uh + + + + + + + + + + And I think that just about sums it up. + + + + + + + + + + I uh, enlisted + + + + + + + + + + in the uh- + + + + + + + + + + a- after uh + + + + + + + + + + [high school you mean.] + + + + + + + + + + You mean h- + + + + + + + + + + high school uh? + + + + + + + + + + Oh well, + + + + + + + + + + [I had to-] + + + + + + + + + + I had chores such as um + + + + + + + + + + getting uh + + + + + + + + + + a little coal and the wood and stuff in, + + + + + + + + + + et cetera, like that. + + + + + + + + + + Well, + + + + + + + + + + I had uh + + + + + + + + + + I had a /part/ of Georgia at that time. I migrated here at the age of thirteen. + + + + + + + + + + And uh + + + + + + + + + + Well uh, + + + + + + + + + + I also had my job cut out in high school, now. In high school, + + + + + + + + + + when I, + + + + + + + + + + when we were out of school, I- I played + + + + + + + + + + football + + + + + + + + + + for the team. + + + + + + + + + + I would- + + + + + + + + + + every evening I would have to do that. + + + + + + + + + + You know. + + + + + + + + + + Like + + + + + + + + + + practice, you know. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + And usually on Fridays we would play + + + + + + + + + + some team here or there, you know. We would travel you know. + + + + + + + + + + Oh, it's entirely different. + + + + + + + + + + Some of them + + + + + + + + + + might participate in sports, but + + + + + + + + + + you got, + + + + + + + + + + in, in the District of Columbia, kids uh, + + + + + + + + + + they just not like they used to be. + + + + + + + + + + They + + + + + + + + + + seek out the happenings + + + + + + + + + + what you might say. I mean happenings range from anything you know + + + + + + + + + + Oh yes. + + + + + + + + + + Well we had w- + + + + + + + + + + uh + + + + + + + + + + a mathematics teacher + + + + + + + + + + If sh- + + + + + + + + + + if you + + + + + + + + + + didn't + + + + + + + + + + comprehend on what she was trying to explain to you after she sit up there and tried to explain it to you, + + + + + + + + + + Well she went off her rocker. + + + + + + + + + + Oh, many times. + + + + + + + + + + No. + + + + + + + + + + I think it was fair at + + + + + + + + + + as I look at it in this day in time, I + + + + + + + + + + being of age now, I st- see she wanted to get this thing to me, and + + + + + + + + + + basically, she wanted to get it to me, she figured that was her main strike. You [know], was to do this. + + + + + + + + + + No, I thought she was a crabby old woman. + + + + + + + + + + [Well] + + + + + + + + + + [that was] my music teacher. + + + + + + + + + + It was a m- he. + + + + + + + + + + Yes. + + + + + + + + + + Well + + + + + + + + + + you may look at it like this. + + + + + + + + + + You seen these things + + + + + + + + + + they call uh teacher's pet? + + + + + + + + + + Well + + + + + + + + + + I wasn't his teacher's pet, + + + + + + + + + + but uh + + + + + + + + + + it seems like he wanted me to learn + + + + + + + + + + what he was trying to + + + + + + + + + + do. + + + + + + + + + + And he, + + + + + + + + + + not like + + + + + + + + + + the uh mathematics teacher, + + + + + + + + + + he took another routine. He + + + + + + + + + + used kindness more or less, + + + + + + + + + + and that lured me + + + + + + + + + + in his belief, + + + + + + + + + + and I learned. + + + + + + + + + + No, + + + + + + + + + + never. + + + + + + + + + + No, and m- + + + + + + + + + + and in my time, you better not. + + + + + + + + + + Oh they + + + + + + + + + + had to, + + + + + + + + + + they had to um, + + + + + + + + + + they could beat you then. + + + + + + + + + + Sure, + + + + + + + + + + I mean + + + + + + + + + + they could actually + + + + + + + + + + whip you, + + + + + + + + + + and you go home and tell you mother and she'd give you another one. + + + + + + + + + + My parents, I know. + + + + + + + + + + Yes. + + + + + + + + + + A strap. + + + + + + + + + + No. + + + + + + + + + + There were about four. + + + + + + + + + + Yes. + + + + + + + + + + Bennett, + + + + + + + + + + Freddy, + + + + + + + + + + Ernest, + + + + + + + + + + Harold, + + + + + + + + + + and Jimmy. + + + + + + + + + + At that time, no. + + + + + + + + + + No. + + + + + + + + + + At that time, I would say no. + + + + + + + + + + We all had our minds, + + + + + + + + + + but + + + + + + + + + + we usually, + + + + + + + + + + if one suggested it, + + + + + + + + + + or if the other suggested it, + + + + + + + + + + we usually, + + + + + + + + + + you know, + + + + + + + + + + went along with the program. + + + + + + + + + + [No.] + + + + + + + + + + No. + + + + + + + + + + Well, + + + + + + + + + + it wasn't a violent group. + + + + + + + + + + You + + + + + + + + + + more or less had to be accepted. + + + + + + + + + + If one said, oh + + + + + + + + + + you know, he's alright + + + + + + + + + + other ones usually + + + + + + + + + + go along with the + + + + + + + + + + program, but + + + + + + + + + + we basically ah, just + + + + + + + + + + just /as fine/, we- + + + + + + + + + + we- + + + + + + + + + + we would + + + + + + + + + + just be together all the time. I don't know where, what it was. + + + + + + + + + + [We] would go fishing together. We'd go swimming together. + + + + + + + + + + We'd play football together. + + + + + + + + + + Baseball. + + + + + + + + + + Softball. + + + + + + + + + + We, + + + + + + + + + + if we went to a playground + + + + + + + + + + and they had a team, + + + + + + + + + + or if we went to basketball court, and they had a team, + + + + + + + + + + and they had uh + + + + + + + + + + say twenty four or thirty others, + + + + + + + + + + we would get our group + + + + + + + + + + you know. + + + + + + + + + + And wait til + + + + + + + + + + this team lost and we would play them. + + + + + + + + + + And we wouldn't split up among us. We just like that so, + + + + + + + + + + what they call this day togetherness, you know. + + + + + + + + + + That's what we were. + + + + + + + + + + No, not actually. + + + + + + + + + + Um, + + + + + + + + + + we also- + + + + + + + + + + one sport that we really cherished was fishing. + + + + + + + + + + Float fishing, spinning, + + + + + + + + + + any kind. + + + + + + + + + + Uh + + + + + + + + + + go spinning + + + + + + + + + + is, wasn't- + + + + + + + + + + it wasn't like it is now. + + + + + + + + + + Mo- more so less than bait casting. + + + + + + + + + + Uh + + + + + + + + + + everybody + + + + + + + + + + used to go there, and you go to the uh + + + + + + + + + + to the lake you might see in 'em + + + + + + + + + + kids there that went to school to- with you, + + + + + + + + + + whatever di- they didn't have to be with you, but if they came up and spoke, you know we spoke + + + + + + + + + + but + + + + + + + + + + the five of us would go there alone, you know. + + + + + + + + + + If somebody else say, you going fishing? We say yeah, if they want to go, they gotta bite. + + + + + + + + + + Let's go, + + + + + + + + + + [you know.] + + + + + + + + + + + + She's got us + + + + + + + + + + on the air now. + + + + + + + + + + Not really. + + + + + + + + + + But uh- + + + + + + + + + + uh + + + + + + + + + + first question is what kind of + + + + + + + + + + games + + + + + + + + + + did- + + + + + + + + + + did you + + + + + + + + + + play when you were a kid, coming up + + + + + + + + + + around ten years old or so? + + + + + + + + + + You remember? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Anything else? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Well how bout the + + + + + + + + + + sort of + + + + + + + + + + kid- + + + + + + + + + + kiddish games that the children play? Did you ever play any of those? + + + + + + + + + + Like the game where one kid hides his eyes and everybody else hides + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. That's what I mean. + + + + + + + + + + Yeah. + + + + + + + + + + Were you /down when you/ + + + + + + + + + + were little + + + + + + + + + + kid. + + + + + + + + + + How do you play hide and s- hide and go seek? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + What happens if you find somebody? + + + + + + + + + + The first one you find? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm that's good. + + + + + + + + + + Well how is that- + + + + + + + + + + how does that work? + + + + + + + + + + Tag and swimming? + + + + + + + + + + [How] do you play it swimming? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + That's interesting. + + + + + + + + + + Can you play that running too? + + + + + + + + + + Or- + + + + + + + + + + Was there any other ways of picking people to be it in these games beside flipping the bottle cap? + + + + + + + + + + [Did you ever] use any rhymes? + + + + + + + + + + Uh, Tarzan was in a tree and he fell out. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Sounds like a quick and easy way. + + + + + + + + + + What would you + + + + + + + + + + do a team two? + + + + + + + + + + Two people against each other, and + + + + + + + + + + the one was left? + + + + + + + + + + Or how would that work if you had twelve? + + + + + + + + + + Mm. + + + + + + + + + + Okay. + + + + + + + + + + Um, + + + + + + + + + + Do you have any favorite TV programs? + + + + + + + + + + What are some of those? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm + + + + + + + + + + What about "The Outcasts" then? + + + + + + + + + + Can you tell me sorta what that's + + + + + + + + + + like? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Do you remember a + + + + + + + + + + episode, or + + + + + + + + + + one show that you saw that you thought was + + + + + + + + + + better than the others, that you remember better? + + + + + + + + + + Can you remember what happened? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Well what happened on that one that you remember? + + + + + + + + + + Can you remember the + + + + + + + + + + [story?] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hmm + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + How bout "The Big Valley"? + + + + + + + + + + Do you remember an episode of that? + + + + + + + + + + [<laugh>] + + + + + + + + + + [/unintelligible/] + + + + + + + + + + You can't remember the story of one of them? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm. + + + + + + + + + + [Mm-hm.] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Hm. + + + + + + + + + + That's quite a + + + + + + + + + + complicated plot + + + + + + + + + + there, for awhile [there.] + + + + + + + + + + What about movies? Have you gotta favorite movie + + + + + + + + + + that you've seen you could talk about? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Frank was gonna tell about that one. + + + + + + + + + + [Haveta] ask him. + + + + + + + + + + <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + What happened in the -? + + + + + + + + + + <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + [Mm-hm.] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + What was the story about? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + [Mm-hm] + + + + + + + + + + Mm. + + + + + + + + + + /??/ + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + [<laugh>] + + + + + + + + + + <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm yeah. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Huh. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + [Mm-hm.] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Hm. + + + + + + + + + + [Mm] + + + + + + + + + + [I think so.] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + You must have left out the parts that was under eighteen <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + <clears throat> + + + + + + + + + + Yeah. + + + + + + + + + + Guess you have to. Well it sounds like an exciting movie. + + + + + + + + + + Uh, what did you study in elementary school? What were the subjects they had + + + + + + + + + + then? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + How about in high school? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + What about after school was out + + + + + + + + + + when you were in elementary school? + + + + + + + + + + What did you do as a child? + + + + + + + + + + After school mostly. + + + + + + + + + + [Everyday after school.] + + + + + + + + + + Elementary school every day. + + + + + + + + + + [At school /?/] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + You living in Georgia at the time or? + + + + + + + + + + Okay uh + + + + + + + + + + what about in high school? What did kids do after school in high school? + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + What about today? Do you think kids do pretty much the same thing + + + + + + + + + + as you did, or is it different? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Hm, that's interesting to get your opinion. + + + + + + + + + + Did you ever have a teacher that hollered a lot? + + + + + + + + + + /?/ come on you were coming up through school? + + + + + + + + + + What did they holler about? + + + + + + + + + + Did she ever yell at you for anything? + + + + + + + + + + <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + You think it was fair or was she + + + + + + + + + + just grouchy? + + + + + + + + + + [Mm-hm.] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + But at the time you didn't feel like that? + + + + + + + + + + How about the best teacher you ever had? + + + + + + + + + + Did you ever + + + + + + + + + + have [one that] was [/?/] + + + + + + + + + + What was so good about her? + + + + + + + + + + It was a he? + + + + + + + + + + What did he do that was + + + + + + + + + + outstanding? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Hm. + + + + + + + + + + Was there ever a teacher you just couldn't stand? + + + + + + + + + + Were you ever in a class where the kids played a trick on the teacher? + + + + + + + + + + <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + Teachers were tough then. + + + + + + + + + + Oh really? + + + + + + + + + + <laugh> + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Did she use a strap or something? + + + + + + + + + + That'll work. + + + + + + + + + + Mm. + + + + + + + + + + So the kids never put tacks on their seats or anything like that? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Kay, when you were a- + + + + + + + + + + a child, was there a group of kids that you + + + + + + + + + + hung out with? + + + + + + + + + + Were + + + + + + + + + + always together with? + + + + + + + + + + Can you still call their first names? + + + + + + + + + + What were they? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Uh + + + + + + + + + + did any of them speak any foreign languages? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Were any of those white? + + + + + + + + + + Was there one of- one of those kids that everyone listened to and considered as a leader? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + It wasn't just one + + + + + + + + + + person that always + + + + + + + + + + [had the best] suggestion? + + + + + + + + + + What about if a new kid wanted to get into that group? + + + + + + + + + + What would he have to do? + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + [Mm-hm.] + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + So it would be pretty hard for another kid to- + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + Mm-hm. + + + + + + + + + + [Mm-hm.] + + + + + + + + + + + + + +