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Lt. Col. SASSAMAN: Right, and that's - you really can't, and that's why there really needs to be a really positive command climate. But early on, the trust between myself and my brigade commander broke down, through numerous instances, on how to fight the battle. And for instance, one directive was, you must drive on the shoulder of the road. Drive down the side of the road to allow Iraqi traffic to pass you by.

lt col sassaman: right and that's - you really can't and that's why there really needs to be a really positive command climate but early on the, trust between myself and my brigade commander broke down through numerous instances on; how to fight the battle and for, instance. one directive was you must drive on the shoulder of the road, drive down. the side of the road to allow iraqi traffic to pass you

Lt Col SASSAMAN: Right and that's - you really can't, and, that's why there really needs to be a really positive command climate But early on the trust between, myself and my brigade commander broke down through, numerous instances on how to fight the. battle And for instance. one directive, was you must drive, on the, shoulder of the road Drive down the, side of the road to allow Iraqi traffic to pass you

lt. col. sassaman: right, and that's - you really can't, and that's why there really needs to be a really positive command climate. but early on, the trust between myself and my brigade commander broke down, through numerous instances, on how to fight the battle. and for instance, one directive was, you must drive on the shoulder of the road. drive down the side of the road to allow iraqi traffic to pass you by.

And after you experience the maiming and wounding of your soldiers by that action, you know that that's incorrect, and you need to dominate the battlefield, and drive down the middle. And so, out of respect for the men, and to do the right thing, to preserve the force, you know, we drove down the middle of the road. And that's just one small example where we differed. And over time, it just got worse and worse. And you're right. I did not trust my brigade commander.

and after you experience the maiming and wounding of your soldiers by that action you know that that's incorrect and you need to dominate the. battlefield and drive down the middle and so out of respect for the men and to do the right thing to preserve the force you know we drove down the middle, of the road and that's, just one small example where we differed and over time it, just got worse and, worse, and you're right i did not trust my brigade

And after you experience the maiming and wounding of your soldiers by that. action you know that that's incorrect and; you need to dominate the battlefield and drive down the middle, And so out of respect for the men and to do. the right, thing to preserve the force you know we drove down the middle of the road And that's just one small example where we differed And over time it just, got, worse and worse And you're right I did not trust my brigade

and after you experience the maiming and wounding of your soldiers by that action, you know that that's incorrect, and you need to dominate the battlefield, and drive down the middle. and so, out of respect for the men, and to do the right thing, to preserve the force, you know, we drove down the middle of the road. and that's just one small example where we differed. and over time, it just got worse and worse. and you're right. i did not trust my brigade commander.

Let's get a caller on the line. This is David, David with us from San Antonio in Texas.

let's get a caller on the line this is david david with us from san antonio in

Let's get a caller on the line This is David David with us from San Antonio; in

let's get a caller on the line. this is david, david with us from san antonio in texas.

Yes.

yes.

Hi, David.

hi

Hi

hi, david.

Hello?

hello?

Hi. You're on the air. Go ahead, please.

hi, you're on. the air go ahead

Hi You're on the air Go ahead

hi. you're on the air. go ahead, please.

All right, thank you. I retired from the Air Force, and from early times I was - I took women to equal opportunity because they were being harassed, and that action got me in trouble with my - with the person that was the harasser, who was my superior. I got in trouble. I was threatened with a bad-conduct discharge. Because of punishment I was being put on nightshift and told I could not attend certain civilian things. And this is in California, in 1978.

all right thank you i retired from the air force and from early times, i was - i took women to equal opportunity because they were being harassed and that action got me in trouble. with my - with the person that was the. harasser who was. my superior i got in trouble i was threatened with a bad-conduct discharge because, of punishment i was being put on nightshift and told i could not attend certain civilian things and this is, in california in

All, right thank you, I, retired from the Air Force and from early times I was - I took women to equal opportunity. because they were being harassed and that action got me in trouble with my - with. the person that was the. harasser who; was my superior I got in trouble I was threatened, with a bad-conduct; discharge Because of punishment I was being put on nightshift and told I could not attend certain civilian things And this is in, California in

all right, thank you. i retired from the air force, and from early times i was - i took women to equal opportunity because they were being harassed, and that action got me in trouble with my - with the person that was the harasser, who was my superior. i got in trouble. i was threatened with a bad-conduct discharge. because of punishment i was being put on nightshift and told i could not attend certain civilian things. and this is in california, in 1978.

I could not - I was threatened, when I was telling my captain about how our boss was running the ship and how he was overriding - I was the ship supervisor, how he was overriding my command, and he kept me out of officer training. So, you know, I - all through my military career, telling on a superior, telling on equals, and even people who were under me, who had - who were the golden boys, did no good and got me into hot water. I retired as an E-6 because of - and with minimal quality, minimal ratings on my reportings.

i could not - i was; threatened when i, was, telling. my. captain about, how our, boss was running the ship and how he was overriding - i was the ship supervisor how he was overriding my command and he kept me out of officer training so you know i - all through my, military. career. telling on a superior telling on equals and even people who were under me who had - who were the golden boys did no good and got me into hot water i retired as an e-6 because. of - and with minimal quality; minimal ratings on my

I could not - I was threatened when I was telling my captain about how our boss was running the ship and, how he was overriding - I was the ship supervisor how he was overriding my command and he kept me. out of officer training So you know I - all through my military career telling on a. superior telling on equals and even people who. were under me who had - who were the golden boys did no good and got me into. hot. water I retired as an E-6 because of - and with minimal quality minimal ratings on my

i could not - i was threatened, when i was telling my captain about how our boss was running the ship and how he was overriding - i was the ship supervisor, how he was overriding my command, and he kept me out of officer training. so, you know, i - all through my military career, telling on a superior, telling on equals, and even people who were under me, who had - who were the golden boys, did no good and got me into hot water. i retired as an e-6 because of - and with minimal quality, minimal ratings on my reportings.

Any regrets, do you think? Do you wonder back and think, well, you know, maybe I shouldn't have done that?

any regrets do you. think? do you wonder back and think well you, know maybe i shouldn't have done

Any regrets do. you think? Do you wonder back and think well you know maybe I shouldn't have done

any regrets, do you think? do you wonder back and think, well, you know, maybe i shouldn't have done that?

No, I feel like I should - well, yeah, I feel like I should have tried harder. But I also feel like they should - I didn't know what else to do because, you know, standing up and doing what was right, and doing the right thing for the country, and doing the right thing for people who were being mistreated - I had no regrets for doing what I did, basically. I just wish it would have turned out the way I wanted.

no; i, feel like i should - well yeah, i. feel like i should have tried, harder but i also feel like they should - i didn't know what. else, to do because you know, standing up and doing what was right and doing the right thing for the country and doing the right thing for people, who were being mistreated - i had no regrets for doing what i did basically. i just wish it would have turned out, the way i

No. I feel like I, should - well yeah I feel like I should have tried harder But I also, feel like they should - I, didn't know what else, to do because you know standing up and, doing what was right. and doing the right thing for the country and doing the right thing for people who were; being mistreated - I had no regrets for doing what I did basically I just wish it would have turned out the way I

no, i feel like i should - well, yeah, i feel like i should have tried harder. but i also feel like they should - i didn't know what else to do because, you know, standing up and doing what was right, and doing the right thing for the country, and doing the right thing for people who were being mistreated - i had no regrets for doing what i did, basically. i just wish it would have turned out the way i wanted.

Yes, I think we can all agree with that, David.

yes i think we can all agree with that

Yes. I think we can all agree with that

yes, i think we can all agree with that, david.

(Soundbite of laughter)

(soundbite of

(Soundbite of

(soundbite of laughter)

Thanks very much for the call. Appreciate it.

thanks very much for the, call; appreciate

Thanks very. much for the call Appreciate

thanks very much for the call. appreciate it.

Thank you.

thank

Thank

thank you.

And I guess, Nathan Sassaman, that same question to you. Any regrets?

and i guess nathan sassaman that same question to you, any

And I. guess Nathan Sassaman that same. question, to you Any

and i guess, nathan sassaman, that same question to you. any regrets?

Lt. Col. SASSAMAN: Well, sir, you know, we differed - with my brigade commander early on. So I was very outspoken in my opposition, and it wasn't something that came, you know, two, three years later. So there was, you know, there was a conflict almost immediately from - with our relationship.

lt col sassaman: well sir you know we differed - with my brigade commander early on. so i was very outspoken in my opposition. and it. wasn't something that came you know two three years later so there. was you know there was a conflict almost immediately from - with our

Lt. Col SASSAMAN: Well sir you know we differed - with my brigade commander early on So I was very outspoken, in my opposition; and it wasn't something. that came, you know two three years later So there was you know, there. was a conflict almost; immediately from - with our

lt. col. sassaman: well, sir, you know, we differed - with my brigade commander early on. so i was very outspoken in my opposition, and it wasn't something that came, you know, two, three years later. so there was, you know, there was a conflict almost immediately from - with our relationship.

At this point - at this point, no regrets. I needed to lay out what my situation was about. If there's anything I regret, it's that it couldn't have - we could not, you know, the commander in general, the brigade commander and myself couldn't have all gotten in a room and just been able to have a discourse. But I think that at that time the relationship was so fractured that we couldn't move forward in that fashion.

at this point - at this point no regrets i needed to lay out what my situation, was about if there's anything i regret it's that it couldn't have - we could not you know the commander in general the brigade commander and myself couldn't have all gotten, in a room and just been able. to have a discourse but i think that at that time the relationship was so fractured that we couldn't move forward in that

At this point - at, this point no regrets I needed to lay out, what my situation was about If there's anything I regret it's that it couldn't have - we could not you know. the commander in general the brigade commander and myself couldn't have all. gotten in a room and just been able to have a discourse But I, think that at that. time the relationship was so fractured that we couldn't move forward in that

at this point - at this point, no regrets. i needed to lay out what my situation was about. if there's anything i regret, it's that it couldn't have - we could not, you know, the commander in general, the brigade commander and myself couldn't have all gotten in a room and just been able to have a discourse. but i think that at that time the relationship was so fractured that we couldn't move forward in that fashion.

Can you tell us what you're doing now?

can you tell us what you're doing

Can you tell us, what you're doing

can you tell us what you're doing now?

Lt. Col. SASSAMAN: Right, I'm a high-school athletic director and head football coach out here in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and I also help run a small football seminars and camps business. So, I'm just pouring myself into young people's lives.

lt col sassaman: right i'm a, high-school athletic director and head football coach, out here, in colorado springs colorado and i also help run a small football seminars and camps business so i'm just pouring myself into young, people's

Lt Col SASSAMAN: Right I'm a high-school athletic director and head. football coach out here in Colorado Springs Colorado and I also help run a, small. football seminars and camps business So I'm just pouring, myself, into young people's;

lt. col. sassaman: right, i'm a high-school athletic director and head football coach out here in colorado springs, colorado, and i also help run a small football seminars and camps business. so, i'm just pouring myself into young people's lives.

If the name Nathan Sassaman sounds familiar to Army football fans, well, it was a couple of - one particularly great season and one bowl game that everybody will remember. Nathan Sassaman, good luck in your endeavors. Appreciate your time today.

if the name nathan sassaman sounds familiar to army, football fans well it was a couple. of - one, particularly great season and, one bowl game that everybody will remember nathan sassaman good luck in your endeavors appreciate your time

If. the name Nathan Sassaman sounds familiar to Army football fans well it was a couple. of - one particularly great season and one bowl game that everybody will remember Nathan Sassaman good luck, in your endeavors Appreciate your time

if the name nathan sassaman sounds familiar to army football fans, well, it was a couple of - one particularly great season and one bowl game that everybody will remember. nathan sassaman, good luck in your endeavors. appreciate your time today.

Lt. Col. SASSAMAN: Thank you, sir, for having me on the show.

lt col sassaman: thank you sir for having me, on the

Lt Col SASSAMAN: Thank you sir for having me on the

lt. col. sassaman: thank you, sir, for having me on the show.

Nathan Sassaman, co-author of "Warrior King: The Trial and Betrayal of an American Commander in Iraq." He earned a bronze star for valor while leading the first battalion of the eight infantry regiment of the fourth infantry division in Iraq. He was with us today from Pan Studios in Colorado Springs. Now, let's see if we can get another caller on the line. This is Bob, Bob's with us in Virginia Beach.

nathan sassaman co-author of "warrior king: the trial and betrayal of an american commander in iraq" he earned a bronze star for valor. while leading the first, battalion of the. eight infantry regiment, of the fourth. infantry division in iraq he was with us today from pan studios in colorado springs now let's, see if we can get. another caller on the line this is bob bob's with us in virginia

Nathan Sassaman co-author of "Warrior King: The Trial and Betrayal of an American Commander in Iraq" He earned a bronze star for, valor while leading the first battalion of the eight infantry regiment of the fourth infantry division in Iraq He was with us today from Pan Studios in Colorado Springs Now let's see if. we can get another caller on the line This is Bob Bob's with us in Virginia

nathan sassaman, co-author of "warrior king: the trial and betrayal of an american commander in iraq." he earned a bronze star for valor while leading the first battalion of the eight infantry regiment of the fourth infantry division in iraq. he was with us today from pan studios in colorado springs. now, let's see if we can get another caller on the line. this is bob, bob's with us in virginia beach.

Yes, sir.

yes

Yes

yes, sir.

Hi.

hi.

How've you doing?

how've you

How've you

how've you doing?

Very well, thank you.

very well; thank

Very well thank,

very well, thank you.

About three years ago I wrote a book about my students. I teach at a community college. I've been doing so for more than 20 years. And I wrote a book called "Prof" and it pretty much is an expose of the attitude and the problems in both the faculty and the students in the community college, and I think, really representative of a lot of colleges, really, today.

about three years ago i wrote a book about my students i teach at a community college i've been doing so for more, than 20 years and i wrote a, book called "prof" and it pretty much is an expose of the attitude and the problems in, both the. faculty and the students in the community college and i think really representative of a lot of colleges really

About three years ago I wrote a book about my students I teach at a community college I've been doing so for more than 20 years. And I wrote a book called; "Prof" and it pretty much is an expose of the attitude and the problems in both the faculty and the students in the community. college and I think. really representative. of a lot of colleges really

about three years ago i wrote a book about my students. i teach at a community college. i've been doing so for more than 20 years. and i wrote a book called "prof" and it pretty much is an expose of the attitude and the problems in both the faculty and the students in the community college, and i think, really representative of a lot of colleges, really, today.

And you name names?

and you name

And you, name

and you name names?

Yeah, pretty much, you know, it was clear, I definitely named the college and I used first names and some last names.

yeah pretty much you know. it was clear, i definitely named the. college and i used first names and some last,

Yeah pretty much you know. it was clear I definitely named the college and I used first names and some last.

yeah, pretty much, you know, it was clear, i definitely named the college and i used first names and some last names.

So anybody really interested to learn could have figured it out?

so anybody really interested to learn could have; figured it

So anybody really interested to. learn, could have figured it

so anybody really interested to learn could have figured it out?

Oh, absolutely. Oh, and they did.

oh absolutely oh and. they

Oh absolutely Oh and they

oh, absolutely. oh, and they did.

Well, at first, the most difficult part for me was getting my classes to meet because the word spread that my basic tone was one of contemption (ph). I was just - very much the students were - it was all an attack on the students and the faculty who let the students get away with the junk that they do get away with in the community college today, from cheating to missing classes to grammar to everything. And so, the fallout from the faculty was a quiet kind of think, because they kind of agreed with me, except for the few that I mentioned who were very upset.

well at first the most difficult part for me was getting my classes to meet because the. word spread that my basic tone was one of, contemption (ph). i was just. - very; much the students were - it was, all an attack, on, the students. and the faculty who let the students get away. with the. junk that they do get away. with in. the. community college today from cheating. to missing classes to grammar. to everything and so the fallout from the faculty was a quiet kind of think because they kind of agreed with me except for the few that i, mentioned who were, very

Well at, first the most difficult part for me was. getting. my classes to. meet because the word spread that my basic tone was one of contemption (ph). I was just - very much the students were - it was all an attack on the students, and the faculty who let the students get away with the junk that they do get away with in the community, college today from cheating to missing classes to grammar to. everything And so the fallout from the faculty was a quiet kind of think because they kind of agreed with me except for the few that I mentioned who were very

well, at first, the most difficult part for me was getting my classes to meet because the word spread that my basic tone was one of contemption (ph). i was just - very much the students were - it was all an attack on the students and the faculty who let the students get away with the junk that they do get away with in the community college today, from cheating to missing classes to grammar to everything. and so, the fallout from the faculty was a quiet kind of think, because they kind of agreed with me, except for the few that i mentioned who were very upset.

The administration wasn't real pleased, but the students were the worst. It was - at first, for the first year and a half, it became somewhat difficult. A lot of students didn't want to have anything to do with a professor who was going to make fun of them and attack them for thing - for their attitude and their methods in the college classroom today. Ironically enough, a lot of what I write about is me having a similar attitude when I was in college 25, 30 years ago, but...

the administration wasn't. real pleased but the students were the worst it was - at first for the, first year and a half it became somewhat difficult a lot of students didn't want to have anything to do with a; professor who was going to make fun of them and, attack them for; thing - for their attitude; and their methods in the college classroom today ironically enough a, lot of what i write about is me, having a similar attitude, when i was, in. college 25, 30 years ago

The administration wasn't, real pleased but the students were the worst It was; - at first for the first year and a half it became somewhat. difficult A lot of students didn't want to have anything, to do with a professor who was going to make fun of them and attack them for thing - for their attitude and their. methods in the. college classroom today Ironically enough a lot of what I write about is me having a similar attitude when I was in college 25, 30 years ago

the administration wasn't real pleased, but the students were the worst. it was - at first, for the first year and a half, it became somewhat difficult. a lot of students didn't want to have anything to do with a professor who was going to make fun of them and attack them for thing - for their attitude and their methods in the college classroom today. ironically enough, a lot of what i write about is me having a similar attitude when i was in college 25, 30 years ago, but...

That part, I guess, people didn't focus on, but...

that part i guess people didn't focus on

That part I guess people didn't; focus, on

that part, i guess, people didn't focus on, but...

No, not at all. Of course not. The - your guest mentioned unanticipated consequences, and I think, the biggest one for me is, after my classes really started to meet again, now, the students are a lot more conscious of themselves in the classroom. And I didn't anticipate that, but they're like, well, a lot of people are offended by your attack on the students' attitude, and I, basically, gained a reputation that, if you're offended by what I say, you probably deserved it. And...

no not. at all, of course not the - your guest mentioned unanticipated consequences and i think the biggest one for. me is after my classes really started. to meet again now the students are a lot more conscious of themselves in the classroom and i didn't anticipate that; but they're. like well a lot of people are, offended by your attack on the students' attitude and i basically gained. a reputation that if you're offended by what i say you probably deserved it

No not at all Of course not The - your guest mentioned, unanticipated consequences and I think the biggest one for me is after my classes really started to meet again, now the students, are a lot more conscious of themselves in. the classroom And I. didn't anticipate that but they're like. well a lot of people. are offended. by your. attack on the students' attitude and I basically gained a reputation that if you're offended by what I say you probably deserved it

no, not at all. of course not. the - your guest mentioned unanticipated consequences, and i think, the biggest one for me is, after my classes really started to meet again, now, the students are a lot more conscious of themselves in the classroom. and i didn't anticipate that, but they're like, well, a lot of people are offended by your attack on the students' attitude, and i, basically, gained a reputation that, if you're offended by what i say, you probably deserved it. and...

Hm.

hm.

And it was - sounds a lot meaner than it was, but now my classes fill almost immediately, and I think the students are aware of the fact that I'm going to attack them for anything less than what's expected from a college student in a college classroom today.

and it was - sounds. a lot meaner than, it was but now my classes fill almost immediately and i think the students are aware of the fact that i'm going to attack them for anything less than what's expected from a college student in a college classroom

And it was; - sounds a lot meaner than it was but now my classes fill almost immediately and I think the students are aware of the fact that I'm going to attack them for anything less than what's expected from a college student in a. college classroom

and it was - sounds a lot meaner than it was, but now my classes fill almost immediately, and i think the students are aware of the fact that i'm going to attack them for anything less than what's expected from a college student in a college classroom today.

So, more than worth it, it sounds like.

so more than worth it it sounds

So more than worth it it sounds

so, more than worth it, it sounds like.

In the end, yeah. At first, there was that immediate kind of, oh God, what did I do? You know, one of those type things, and that lasted for a little while. But in the end, it's kind of OK, I'm OK., so...

in, the end yeah at first there was that immediate kind of oh god what did i do? you. know one of those type things and that lasted for a little while, but in the end it's kind of ok i'm

In the end yeah At first there was that immediate kind of oh God what did I do? You know one of those type things and that lasted for a little while But, in the end it's kind of OK I'm

in the end, yeah. at first, there was that immediate kind of, oh god, what did i do? you know, one of those type things, and that lasted for a little while. but in the end, it's kind of ok, i'm ok., so...

Well, good luck, Bob.

well good luck

Well good, luck

well, good luck, bob.

Thank you so much.

thank you so

Thank you so

thank you so much.

We're taking about the consequences of telling all. You're listening to Talk of the Nation from NPR News. And we turn, now, to Marina Ruben. Marina is a tutor for Potomac Tutors and wrote a tell-all cover story for the Washington City Paper called "Hire Education," H-I-R-E education. She's managed to keep her job. She's with us here in Studio 3A. Thanks very much for coming in today.

we're taking about the consequences of telling all you're listening to talk of the nation from npr news and we turn now. to marina ruben marina is a tutor for potomac tutors and wrote a tell-all cover story for the washington city paper, called "hire, education" h-i-r-e education she's managed to keep her job she's with us here in studio 3a thanks very much for coming in

We're taking about the consequences of telling all You're listening to Talk of the Nation from NPR News And we. turn now to Marina, Ruben Marina is a tutor for Potomac Tutors and wrote a tell-all cover story. for, the Washington City Paper called "Hire Education" H-I-R-E, education She's managed to keep her job She's with us here in, Studio 3A. Thanks, very much for coming in

we're taking about the consequences of telling all. you're listening to talk of the nation from npr news. and we turn, now, to marina ruben. marina is a tutor for potomac tutors and wrote a tell-all cover story for the washington city paper called "hire education," h-i-r-e education. she's managed to keep her job. she's with us here in studio 3a. thanks very much for coming in today.

Thank you.

thank

Thank

thank you.

How did you manage to tell a write-all about your workplace and still work there?

how did you manage to tell a. write-all about your workplace and still work

How did you manage to tell. a write-all about your workplace and still work

how did you manage to tell a write-all about your workplace and still work there?

I checked with my boss first. I think that was key. And, actually, with the students in the article, as well, which was maybe the part I was most nervous about.

i checked with my, boss first i think that was key and actually with the students in the article as well which was maybe the part i was most nervous

I checked. with my boss first I think that, was key And actually with the; students in the article as well which was maybe the part I was most, nervous

i checked with my boss first. i think that was key. and, actually, with the students in the article, as well, which was maybe the part i was most nervous about.

Because, obviously, you were telling anecdotes, some less than flattering.

because obviously you were telling anecdotes some, less than

Because obviously you were telling anecdotes some less, than

because, obviously, you were telling anecdotes, some less than flattering.

Exactly, and I was surprised to find that some of the students actually didn't really mind that they were being quoted. I had students who were saying things about how they thought Shakespeare was born in the 1950s, and one of my ninth grade students asked me if Native Americans were guys or girls, and I was really nervous about asking her if I could put this in the article. She looked at it, sitting there waiting for her, and she looked up and said oh, wow, that's me, and was just, I think, flattered by the possibility of celebrity.

exactly and i was surprised to find that some of the; students actually didn't really mind that they were being quoted. i had, students who were saying things about how they, thought shakespeare was born; in the 1950s and one of my ninth grade students, asked me, if native americans were guys or girls and, i was really nervous about asking her if i could put this in the article, she looked at it sitting there. waiting for her and, she looked up and said oh wow that's me and was just i think flattered by the possibility of

Exactly and I was surprised to find that some of the students, actually didn't really mind that they were, being quoted I had students who were saying things about how they thought Shakespeare was born in the 1950s and one of my ninth grade students asked me if Native Americans were guys or girls and I was really nervous about asking her if I. could put. this in the. article She looked at, it sitting there waiting for her and she looked. up and, said oh wow that's me and was just I think. flattered by the possibility of

exactly, and i was surprised to find that some of the students actually didn't really mind that they were being quoted. i had students who were saying things about how they thought shakespeare was born in the 1950s, and one of my ninth grade students asked me if native americans were guys or girls, and i was really nervous about asking her if i could put this in the article. she looked at it, sitting there waiting for her, and she looked up and said oh, wow, that's me, and was just, i think, flattered by the possibility of celebrity.

Now, how long ago was this?

now how long, ago was

Now how long ago was

now, how long ago was this?

This was published in March, but I've worked at the same place for the past - this is my third year there, actually.

this was published in march but i've worked at the same place for the past - this is my third year. there

This was published in. March but I've worked at. the same place for the past - this. is my third; year there,

this was published in march, but i've worked at the same place for the past - this is my third year there, actually.

And have there been any consequences subsequently? People saying, hey, wait a minute, I'm not sure I want somebody tutoring my kid who might then describe it in the press.

and have there been any consequences subsequently? people saying hey wait a minute i'm not sure i want somebody tutoring my kid who might then describe it in the

And have there been any consequences. subsequently? People saying hey wait a minute I'm not sure I want somebody tutoring, my kid who might, then. describe it in the

and have there been any consequences subsequently? people saying, hey, wait a minute, i'm not sure i want somebody tutoring my kid who might then describe it in the press.

Surprisingly, there haven't been consequences like that, at least not really in Potomac. I mean, people have - people who are not affiliated with the tutoring company have had negative feedback, but I don't think my - many of my students or the parents there have seen the article. Maybe they don't read the City Paper.

surprisingly there haven't been. consequences like that at least not really in potomac i mean people have - people who are not affiliated with the tutoring company have had negative feedback but i don't think. my - many of. my students or the, parents there have, seen the article maybe, they don't read the city

Surprisingly there haven't been consequences, like that at least not really, in Potomac I mean people. have - people who are not, affiliated with the tutoring company have had negative feedback. but I don't think my - many of my students or the parents there have seen the article Maybe they, don't read the City

surprisingly, there haven't been consequences like that, at least not really in potomac. i mean, people have - people who are not affiliated with the tutoring company have had negative feedback, but i don't think my - many of my students or the parents there have seen the article. maybe they don't read the city paper.

But in essence, you weren't criticizing the company or, indeed, your colleagues.

but in essence you weren't criticizing the company or indeed your

But in essence you weren't criticizing the company or indeed your

but in essence, you weren't criticizing the company or, indeed, your colleagues.

Right, exactly, and I think that's what's different in this situation from some of your previous guests. I wasn't really trying to expose something about the company, and really, I was just trying to paint a humorous picture of working there.

right exactly and i think that's what's different in this situation. from some of your previous guests, i. wasn't really, trying to expose something about. the, company and really, i was just trying to paint. a humorous picture of working

Right exactly and I think that's what's different in this situation. from some of your previous guests I. wasn't really trying to expose something about the company and really. I was just trying to. paint a humorous picture of working

right, exactly, and i think that's what's different in this situation from some of your previous guests. i wasn't really trying to expose something about the company, and really, i was just trying to paint a humorous picture of working there.

Mm-hm. And that is good advice, though. I guess if the situation allows for it, go ask your boss if it's OK if you write the book.

mm-hm and, that is good advice though i guess if. the situation allows for it go ask your boss if it's ok if you write the

Mm-hm And, that is, good advice though I. guess if the situation allows for it go ask your boss if it's OK if you write the

mm-hm. and that is good advice, though. i guess if the situation allows for it, go ask your boss if it's ok if you write the book.

I think that's important if you want to keep working there.

i. think. that's important if you, want to. keep working

I think that's important if, you want to keep working

i think that's important if you want to keep working there.

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(soundbite, of

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And do you intend to keep working there?

and do you intend to keep working

And do, you intend to keep working

and do you intend to keep working there?

I'm not sure if I'll be there beyond this year. I'm also teaching, at least this year, at a high school in Maryland, which is good for accumulating additional stories, because it's a modern orthodox Jewish high school.

i'm not sure if i'll. be there beyond this year i'm. also teaching at least this year at a high school in maryland which is good for accumulating additional stories because it's a modern orthodox, jewish high

I'm not sure if I'll be there beyond this year I'm also teaching at least this year at. a high school in Maryland which. is. good for; accumulating additional stories. because it's a modern orthodox. Jewish high

i'm not sure if i'll be there beyond this year. i'm also teaching, at least this year, at a high school in maryland, which is good for accumulating additional stories, because it's a modern orthodox jewish high school.

And do they know of your proclivities for writing?

and do they know of your proclivities for,

And. do. they know of your proclivities, for

and do they know of your proclivities for writing?

They did see the article. I'm not sure if that's means that's why my students are saying more outlandish things, because they hope to be quoted, or if that's just their natural inclination.

they did see the article i'm not sure if that's means that's why my students are saying more outlandish things because they hope to be quoted or if that's just their natural

They did see the article I'm not sure if that's means. that's why my. students are; saying more outlandish. things because they hope to be quoted or if that's just their; natural.

they did see the article. i'm not sure if that's means that's why my students are saying more outlandish things, because they hope to be quoted, or if that's just their natural inclination.

So, in your case, anyway, there's not really been a price to pay, if any price.

so in your case anyway there's not really been a. price to pay if any

So; in your. case, anyway there's not really been a price to pay if any

so, in your case, anyway, there's not really been a price to pay, if any price.

No, surprisingly, there really hasn't. It's been good. I got to be on NPR, so...

no surprisingly there really hasn't it's been good, i got to be on npr

No surprisingly there really hasn't It's been good I got to. be on, NPR

no, surprisingly, there really hasn't. it's been good. i got to be on npr, so...

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(soundbite. of

(Soundbite of

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Hey. And now you can tell - well, anyway. The parents of the kids you tutor, what about them?

hey, and now you can tell - well anyway; the parents of the kids you tutor what. about

Hey And now you can tell - well anyway The parents of the kids you tutor what about

hey. and now you can tell - well, anyway. the parents of the kids you tutor, what about them?

I want to, if I can, get you to read a section which is just an absolutely dead-on description of anxiety.

i want to if. i can, get you to read a section which is just an absolutely dead-on description of

I want to if I can get you to read a section which is just; an absolutely dead-on description of

i want to, if i can, get you to read a section which is just an absolutely dead-on description of anxiety.

Yeah, I was nervous of revealing some of what I did, because I told some stories that weren't so flattering about parents who were kind of nasty. But again, I was more worried about the students.

yeah i was nervous of revealing some of what, i did because, i told some stories that weren't, so. flattering about parents who were kind of nasty but again i. was more worried about the

Yeah I was nervous of, revealing some of what I did because I told some stories that weren't so flattering about parents. who. were kind of nasty But again I was more worried about the

yeah, i was nervous of revealing some of what i did, because i told some stories that weren't so flattering about parents who were kind of nasty. but again, i was more worried about the students.

These are, in short, your clients.

these. are in short your

These are in short your

these are, in short, your clients.

Right. Exactly. And I was really worried more, though, about offending the students. I mean, as an educator. My goal is not really to expose their deficiencies. It's to help them. So, I didn't want to be pointing out that they were more interested in talking about yachts and Starbucks than their homework. But luckily they didn't seem to get too upset.

right exactly and i was really worried, more though about, offending the students, i mean as an educator my goal is not really to expose, their deficiencies it's to, help them. so i didn't want to be pointing out that they were; more interested in, talking, about yachts, and starbucks, than their homework but luckily they didn't seem to get too

Right Exactly, And I was really worried more though about, offending the students I mean as; an educator My goal is not really to expose their. deficiencies It's to help them So I didn't want to be pointing out that they were more interested in talking about yachts and Starbucks than their homework But luckily they didn't seem to get too

right. exactly. and i was really worried more, though, about offending the students. i mean, as an educator. my goal is not really to expose their deficiencies. it's to help them. so, i didn't want to be pointing out that they were more interested in talking about yachts and starbucks than their homework. but luckily they didn't seem to get too upset.

Marina Ruben, thanks very much for coming in, and good luck to you.

marina ruben thanks very much for coming in, and good. luck to

Marina Ruben thanks very much for coming in and good luck to

marina ruben, thanks very much for coming in, and good luck to you.

Thank you.

thank

Thank

thank you.

Marina Ruben, a tutor for Potomac Tutors and author of the tell-all cover story for the Washington City Paper called "Hire Education." You can find a link to it on our blog at npr.org/blogofthenation. She was kind enough to join us here today in Studio 3A. When we come back, we'll hear more of your stories about the effects of, well, what happened when you told all. And we'll also talk about the upcoming "Sex and the City" movie. Guys, if you need an official "I can get out of seeing this picture with my girlfriend" card, here's your opportunity. Stay with us. I'm Neal Conan. It's the Talk of the Nation from NPR News.

marina ruben a tutor for potomac, tutors and author. of the tell-all cover story for the, washington, city paper called "hire education" you can find a link to. it on our blog at npr.org/blogofthenation she was kind enough to, join us here today in, studio 3a when. we come back we'll hear more of your stories about the effects of well what. happened when you told all and we'll also talk about the upcoming "sex. and the city" movie guys if you need an, official "i can, get out of seeing this picture with my; girlfriend" card here's your opportunity stay with us i'm neal conan it's the talk of the nation from, npr

Marina Ruben a tutor for Potomac Tutors and author of the. tell-all cover story for the Washington City Paper, called "Hire Education" You can. find a link to it on our blog at npr.org/blogofthenation She was kind enough to join us here today in Studio 3A When we come back we'll hear more of your stories about the effects of well what happened when you told all And we'll also talk about the upcoming "Sex and the City" movie Guys if you need an official "I can get out of seeing this picture, with my girlfriend" card here's your opportunity Stay with us I'm Neal Conan It's the Talk of, the Nation from NPR

marina ruben, a tutor for potomac tutors and author of the tell-all cover story for the washington city paper called "hire education." you can find a link to it on our blog at npr.org/blogofthenation. she was kind enough to join us here today in studio 3a. when we come back, we'll hear more of your stories about the effects of, well, what happened when you told all. and we'll also talk about the upcoming "sex and the city" movie. guys, if you need an official "i can get out of seeing this picture with my girlfriend" card, here's your opportunity. stay with us. i'm neal conan. it's the talk of the nation from npr news.

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Today we're talking about the tell-all memoir, the first person expose, the blog that says too much about your colleagues and what it costs to publish them, and we're taking your calls. 800-989-8255. Email is [email protected]. Here's an email we got from Laura. Dan Rogers refused to sail with the USS Scorpion in 1968. He later talked with a reporter about the tremendous maintenance problems on board that submarine.

today we're talking about the tell-all memoir the first person expose the blog that says too much about your colleagues and what it costs to publish them and we're taking your calls 800-989-8255. email is [email protected] here's an email we got from laura, dan rogers refused to sail with the uss, scorpion in 1968. he later talked with a reporter about the tremendous maintenance problems on board; that

Today we're talking about the; tell-all memoir the first person expose the blog that says too much, about your colleagues and what it, costs to publish them and we're taking your calls 800-989-8255. Email, is [email protected] Here's an email we got from Laura Dan Rogers refused to sail with the USS Scorpion in 1968. He later talked with a reporter about the, tremendous maintenance problems on board that,

today we're talking about the tell-all memoir, the first person expose, the blog that says too much about your colleagues and what it costs to publish them, and we're taking your calls. 800-989-8255. email is [email protected]. here's an email we got from laura. dan rogers refused to sail with the uss scorpion in 1968. he later talked with a reporter about the tremendous maintenance problems on board that submarine.

This information was researched and written about by Stephen Johnson, eventually becoming the book "Silent Steel." Rogers felt tremendous guilt for surviving, as well as for breaking the oath of secrecy. He died as a result of bad health, mostly due to the stress of his inner struggle. That from Laura, the sister of David Stone, one of the crewmembers lost with 98 others on USS Scorpion in May 1968. Let's see if we can get another caller on the line. And this is Adrienne, Adrienne with us from Cleveland in Ohio.

this information was. researched and written, about by stephen johnson eventually becoming the book "silent steel" rogers felt tremendous guilt for surviving as well as for breaking the oath of secrecy he died as a result of bad health mostly due to the, stress. of. his inner struggle that from laura the sister of david stone one of the crewmembers lost with 98 others on uss scorpion in may. 1968. let's see if we can get another caller on the line and this is adrienne adrienne with us from cleveland in.

This information was researched, and written. about, by, Stephen Johnson eventually becoming the book "Silent Steel" Rogers felt tremendous guilt. for surviving as well as for, breaking the oath. of secrecy He died as, a; result of bad health mostly, due to the stress of his inner. struggle That from Laura the, sister of David Stone one of the crewmembers lost with 98 others on USS Scorpion in May 1968. Let's see, if we. can get another caller on the line And this is Adrienne, Adrienne with, us from Cleveland. in

this information was researched and written about by stephen johnson, eventually becoming the book "silent steel." rogers felt tremendous guilt for surviving, as well as for breaking the oath of secrecy. he died as a result of bad health, mostly due to the stress of his inner struggle. that from laura, the sister of david stone, one of the crewmembers lost with 98 others on uss scorpion in may 1968. let's see if we can get another caller on the line. and this is adrienne, adrienne with us from cleveland in ohio.

Hello, Neal.

hello

Hello

hello, neal.

Hi.

hi.

Thank you for taking my call.

thank you; for taking my

Thank you for taking my

thank you for taking my call.

Sure. Go ahead, please.

sure go, ahead

Sure Go, ahead

sure. go ahead, please.

Yes. I wrote a memoir that was published in January 2008, and I was a 26-year veteran of a renowned open-heart team here in Cleveland, Ohio. Two weeks after my memoir was published, which I thought was about me, I was terminated from my job. I am a registered nurse, and apparently, some of the things that I wrote about - I did not name names, but I think that the stark truth of my observations and perceptions and opinions resulted in my termination.

yes i wrote a memoir that. was published in january 2008, and i was a 26-year veteran of a renowned, open-heart. team here in cleveland ohio two weeks after. my memoir was published, which i thought was about me i was terminated from my job i am a, registered nurse and apparently some of the things that i wrote about - i did not name names but i think that the stark truth of my observations and perceptions and opinions, resulted in my

Yes I wrote a memoir, that was published in January 2008, and I was a 26-year veteran, of a renowned. open-heart team here in Cleveland Ohio Two weeks after my memoir. was published which I thought was about me I was terminated from, my job I am a registered nurse, and apparently some of the things that I wrote about; - I did not name names but I think that the stark truth of my observations and perceptions and opinions resulted in my

yes. i wrote a memoir that was published in january 2008, and i was a 26-year veteran of a renowned open-heart team here in cleveland, ohio. two weeks after my memoir was published, which i thought was about me, i was terminated from my job. i am a registered nurse, and apparently, some of the things that i wrote about - i did not name names, but i think that the stark truth of my observations and perceptions and opinions resulted in my termination.

Did you name the hospital where you were working?

did you name the. hospital where you were

Did you name the, hospital where you were

did you name the hospital where you were working?

Yes, I did because at the time I worked there.

yes i did because at the. time i worked

Yes I did because at, the time I worked

yes, i did because at the time i worked there.

And so, you didn't think that was going to be controversial.

and so you didn't think that was going, to be

And so you didn't think that was going, to be

and so, you didn't think that was going to be controversial.

I did not. I - and perhaps I was naive in that regard, because I considered the book to be about me, and when it came out, the fact that other people in healthcare sort of aligned themselves with the book and some of the thoughts and feelings that I expressed, it became larger than me at that point.

i did not i - and perhaps i was naive, in that regard because i considered; the book to be. about. me and when it came out the fact that other people in, healthcare sort of aligned themselves with the book and some of the thoughts and feelings. that i expressed it, became larger. than me at that,

I did not I - and perhaps I was naive in that, regard because I, considered, the, book to be about me and when it came out, the, fact that other people in healthcare sort of. aligned themselves with the book and some, of the thoughts and feelings that I expressed it became larger than me at that,

i did not. i - and perhaps i was naive in that regard, because i considered the book to be about me, and when it came out, the fact that other people in healthcare sort of aligned themselves with the book and some of the thoughts and feelings that i expressed, it became larger than me at that point.

And in the book, did you tell the names of surgeons or administrators who you thought were doing poor jobs?

and in the book did you tell the names of surgeons or administrators who you thought were doing poor.

And in the book did you tell the names of surgeons or, administrators who you thought were doing poor

and in the book, did you tell the names of surgeons or administrators who you thought were doing poor jobs?

I did not name names. I alluded to people, and this was over a course of many years and, actually, the depictions within the book are a compilation of a number of people. But a number of people also saw some similarities in, perhaps, the people that worked at this particular institution and in other nursing insti - other - I'm sorry, in other hospitals across the nation. I think there is a certain culture in hospitals in the way that nurses and other healthcare members are treated, which - I like to use a term culture of intimity (ph) that exists, and apparently, my book and my comments and observations are here at the appropriate time to bring those things to light.

i did not name names. i alluded, to people and this was over a course of many years, and actually the depictions within the book are a, compilation of a number of people but a number of people also saw some similarities in perhaps the people that worked at this particular institution and in other nursing insti - other. - i'm sorry in other hospitals across the, nation i think there is a certain culture in hospitals in the way that nurses and other healthcare members are treated, which - i like to use a term culture of intimity (ph) that, exists and apparently my book and my comments and. observations are here at the appropriate time to bring those things to

I did not name names I, alluded to people and this was over; a course of many years and actually the depictions within the book are a compilation of a number of people But a number of people also saw some similarities in. perhaps the people that worked at this particular institution and. in other nursing insti - other - I'm sorry in other hospitals across the, nation I think, there is a certain culture in hospitals in the. way that, nurses and other healthcare members are treated which, - I. like to use a; term culture of intimity (ph) that exists and apparently my book and my comments and observations are here at the appropriate time to bring those. things to

i did not name names. i alluded to people, and this was over a course of many years and, actually, the depictions within the book are a compilation of a number of people. but a number of people also saw some similarities in, perhaps, the people that worked at this particular institution and in other nursing insti - other - i'm sorry, in other hospitals across the nation. i think there is a certain culture in hospitals in the way that nurses and other healthcare members are treated, which - i like to use a term culture of intimity (ph) that exists, and apparently, my book and my comments and observations are here at the appropriate time to bring those things to light.

Hm. And in retrospect, are you glad you did it?

hm and in; retrospect are; you glad. you did,

Hm And in retrospect are you glad you did

hm. and in retrospect, are you glad you did it?

Yes, I am glad I did it. It's created quite a discourse. People are talking about it. Patients are talking about it. Other people that are in healthcare and outside of healthcare are talking about issues related to nursing shortages, and you know, how they're treated within the healthcare system. So, yes, I am proud of it.

yes i. am glad i did it it's created quite a discourse people are talking about it patients are talking about it. other people that are in healthcare and outside of healthcare are talking about issues related to nursing shortages and you know. how, they're treated within the healthcare system so yes i am proud of

Yes I am glad I did it It's created quite a discourse People are talking about it Patients are talking about it. Other people that are in healthcare and outside of healthcare are talking about issues related to nursing shortages, and you know how they're treated within. the healthcare system So yes I am proud of

yes, i am glad i did it. it's created quite a discourse. people are talking about it. patients are talking about it. other people that are in healthcare and outside of healthcare are talking about issues related to nursing shortages, and you know, how they're treated within the healthcare system. so, yes, i am proud of it.

I will state again that what I thought was my memoir turned out not to be my memoir. And I think that's one of the unexpected consequences that your guest Mr. Sassaman touched upon. I could not have anticipated that reaction. I knew I had a good book, but I thought it would be a slow roll to the New York Times Bestseller list.

i. will state again that, what i thought, was my memoir turned out not to, be my memoir and i think that's one of the unexpected consequences that your guest mr. sassaman touched upon i could not have anticipated that reaction i knew i had a good book but i, thought it would be a slow roll to the new york times bestseller.

I will state again that what I thought was my memoir turned out not to be my memoir And I think. that's one of the unexpected consequences that your guest Mr Sassaman touched upon, I could not have, anticipated that reaction I knew I had a good book but I thought it would be a slow roll to the New York Times Bestseller

i will state again that what i thought was my memoir turned out not to be my memoir. and i think that's one of the unexpected consequences that your guest mr. sassaman touched upon. i could not have anticipated that reaction. i knew i had a good book, but i thought it would be a slow roll to the new york times bestseller list.

Right, and then the Pulitzer Prize, no doubt.

right, and, then the pulitzer prize no

Right and then the Pulitzer Prize no

right, and then the pulitzer prize, no doubt.

Oh, no doubt, no doubt. But it's - I am proud of the work that I did, and I'm proud of the conversations that have been engendered as a result of the book. And no, I don't regret anything at this point.

oh no, doubt no doubt but it's - i am proud of the work that i did and, i'm proud of the conversations that have been engendered as a result of the, book, and no i don't regret anything at this

Oh, no; doubt no doubt But it's - I, am proud, of the work that I did and I'm proud of the conversations that have, been engendered as a result of the book And, no I don't regret anything at this

oh, no doubt, no doubt. but it's - i am proud of the work that i did, and i'm proud of the conversations that have been engendered as a result of the book. and no, i don't regret anything at this point.

Adrienne, thanks very much for the call. Good luck.

adrienne thanks very, much for the. call good

Adrienne thanks very much for the call Good

adrienne, thanks very much for the call. good luck.

Thank you, Neal.

thank you

Thank, you

thank you, neal.

So long.

so

So,

so long.

Bye.

bye.

Here's an email from Justin in Boise, Idaho. While serving in Iraq with my Army National Guard unit in 2005, I kept a blog to keep family and friends back home in the loop with my own experiences and feelings. I was careful never to reveal information that would be harmful to our missions, but I did tend to rail against the commander of the brigade as out of touch and overbearing.

here's an email from justin in boise idaho while serving in iraq with my army national guard, unit, in 2005, i kept. a blog to keep family and friends back home in the loop with. my own, experiences and feelings i was, careful never to. reveal, information that, would be harmful to our missions but i, did tend to rail against the commander of the brigade as out of touch and

Here's an email. from Justin in, Boise Idaho While serving in Iraq with my Army. National Guard unit, in 2005, I kept. a blog to keep family and friends back home in the loop with my own experiences and feelings I was careful never to reveal information that would be harmful to our missions but, I did tend to rail. against the commander of the brigade as out of touch and

here's an email from justin in boise, idaho. while serving in iraq with my army national guard unit in 2005, i kept a blog to keep family and friends back home in the loop with my own experiences and feelings. i was careful never to reveal information that would be harmful to our missions, but i did tend to rail against the commander of the brigade as out of touch and overbearing.

Reindeer.

reindeer.

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reindeer good. and here's your last one mechanize m-e-c-h-a-n-i- z-e plus

Reindeer good And here's your last one Mechanize M-E-C-H-A-N-I- Z-E plus,

reindeer, good. and here's your last one. mechanize, m-e-c-h-a-n-i- z-e plus p.

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What's that? Plus P, as in Peter.

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